Re: Proof and Manipulation

A friend responded to me:
Kindred Orphan, I really appreciated what you had to say in your [last] posts. I just have to disagree with this one point, though. I don't think we were created to prove anything. If that were the case, God would be a manipulator engaged in a cosmic battle of wills. We would be pawns in his game. I fully believe that we were created to enjoy God's love and goodness. I have to keep going back to the parent/child relationship because that's how God refers to himself and to us. If our lives bring glory to God, that's the best we can hope for, but our lives are not solely for the purpose of proving satan wrong. We were created higher than the angels, second only to God. I'm sure God spends far more energy on us than on satan.



That is true. I agree that God created us for love and fellowship and to glorify Him.

But I also (still) do believe we were created to prove something. All of creation is created to prove something (namely, the glory and breadth of God). So it seems that I believe that God *is* out to prove Himself, in a sense.

I guess to reconcile that point about God proving Himself, there needs some more explaination as to why He would try to prove Himself and what is meant by manipulation. I think that proof is an essential part of free will and choice. What is more, "proving oneself" isn't necessarily a matter of manipulation. God is proving Himself; Satan is manipulating (by distraction, or course of reason, or hinderances). In the garden of Eden, God was masterfully proving Himself to Adam and Eve (by simply engaging in fellowship and conversation with them). Then Satan came along with the first of his manipulating schemes.

So, I think that God is and always does have to 'prove' Himself in a sense. It comes with the nature of being recognized and glorified and engaging in full fellowship (in a world of free will).

I think, too, that we (mankind) are not the only ones to which God is proving Himself. All of the heavenly hosts have a choice to follow God. But the difference is, the heavenly hosts don't need proof that God exists...only proof that God's will is infallible and perfect. I think that is, in the end, what makes us so special. It seems far easier to believe that God is infallible and perfect if we were in heaven and see God in all His glory. But even so, Satan was able to persuade 1/3 of the heavenly hosts to follow his lead.

It all seems mind-boggling; but not unreasonable, I think. But, you don't have to agree, it is just my take on what I've read. Does anyone have a response or additional thought?